A lot of users have set up docker sandboxes, then “migrated” their TC apps to docker compose in those sandboxes.
Many of those same users have already now migrated those docker compose apps out of the sandbox to EE beta (and nightlies)
It’s not just new users, it’s just that a large chunk of TC users very quickly switched to docker compose when given the opportunity.
And I think that had a large part to do with it.
I was explicitly and clearly meaning having UI functionality for both K8s and Docker apps.
Neither:
bears ANY relationship to either:
Having parallel running of existing installed TrueCharts apps and the TrueNAS Charts apps that have been automatically migrated to Docker; or
Giving users who are non-technical and who installed many TrueCharts apps through a UI a nice uncomplicated, non-technical, ideally automated migration path to the new Docker-based solution i.e.
These users haven’t started upgrading to EE yet (which is why the EE Beta users are not representative of TrueNAS Scale users as a whole) but when they do I fully expect to see a shit-storm of posts on these forums asking for help because Scale offered them an upgrade to EE, and they clicked Yes without understanding that their TrueCharts apps and their configuration settings and any internal data was about to disappear in a puff of smoke.
I am technical and more than capable of doing the 3 stage transition from pre-defined TrueNas Charts & TrueCharts to bespoke sandboxes, and then to bespoke Docker apps and then to TrueNAS app catalogue Docker apps, but
See above for my prediction when non-technical users either decide to update from TrueCharts to Docker through a planned EE upgrade, or mistakenly get upgraded to EE and lose their TrueCharts apps.
I do think @Protopia has a point here, there will be some number of users who click update and find all their TC apps broken with Eel. Not everyone is on this forum, or even ever was on TV discord. To recreate those apps immediately (assuming they are needed immediately which seems likely) will not be good.
I kind of feel like the upgrade to Eel should come with dire warnings if TC apps are detected on their current system as a service to those users in an effort to help them resist the shiny new upgrade button on Dragonfish. Doesn’t seem like a big ask?
Why would you have to do things 3 times? Before upgrading to EE, pull your config/data out of TC apps. Upgrade. Install community docker apps or your own images and add binds for config/data.
Yeah, it’s iX’s fault that end users don’t read. You’re acting like iX has some sort of duty to migrate some other repo’s apps.
I do agree that iX needs some huge warning messages about the 24.10 update. Like gigantic. And links to generic instructions on how to get data out if they have TC apps.
IX has nothing to lose here, they get to pawn off the blame to a 3rd party by enabling 3rd party catalogs, what can go wrong. People rightly wanted Docker, so they get it, before they wanted app catalogs, now they don’t. It’s their company, their users
24.10 does include a rollback mechanism for App data. This was deliberately added for unsuccessful migrations.
We did reject that co-existence approach. It is very complex and especially difficult for new users. Mixing apps on both tools would have been almost impossible due to networking differences. At the OS level, Docker and K8s assume they have exclusive access to some resources.
Instead it was expected people who needed K8s to stay on Dragonfish until a migration path they liked was ready. Electric eel supports most needs, and Fangtooth will add extra capabilities.
Hi, everybody! I decided to join this lovely discussion after reading the first two posts of the thread.
Well, there’s always a rollback to the Dragonfish boot environment to get the TC apps back.
You have a point that BETA adoption rate is not definitive evidence about any specific reason for the upgrade. But three times the usual adoption rate suggest that there’s something special at play, and there are only two contenders to draw in the crowd: Raidz expansion and native docker-compose.
I’d say that one of the suspects is more of a plausible cause than the other…
The vikings coming onshore to raid to the tune of “YAML, YAML, eggs and YAML” may not be representative of the general user population (I expect that many want a ZFS NAS and do not care about jails, containers, or VMs of any kind). But if they outnumber the disgruntled TrueCharts users, iX did the right move. Lose some, get some.
Trigger Warning! You may be right in predicting that casula users will come asking for help after losing their charts to an untimely upgade to Electric Eel. And these users will then get a cold hard scolding for carelessly upgrading without first reading and understanding the release notes.
No one should ever jump on a release just because it is “the latest” release.
Fortunately, TrueNAS (and ZFS) provide an easy fix by reverting to the previous booting environment.
I’ll have your YAML. I love it! 
…so long as nothing in the upgrade process did anything to the apps, which has happened in previous releases.
In case of apps migration we’re cloning and promoting existing datasets from ix-applications rather than touching the old app data.
OR, people who insist on upgrading pools and not doing a checkpoint. I already see some on reddit wanting to upgrade their pools for new features.
