10GBase-T: Best to avoid it if you can

This resource was originally created by user: jgreco on the TrueNAS Community Forums Archive. Please DM this account or comment in this thread to claim it.

I recently wrote a resource on high speed network performance tuning, and in it, I commented “Do not try to use copper 10GBase-T”. @Elliot Dierksen asked about this, and I cranked out a pretty comprehensive post on the topic. Here it is in somewhat expanded form.

Elliot Dierksen said:

I am curious about the “Do not try to use copper 10GBase-T” comment in the resource (which was very helpful). I am sure that there are scars associated with that comment.

Actually not; I own a number of bits of gear with 10GBase-T ports, including a very nice X9DR7-TF+ board and some Dell PowerConnect 8024F switches. These were basically incidental acquisitions where I did not deliberately seek them out, and generally use the ports as conventional 1G copper ports.

The most immediate arguments against 10GBase-T are:

  1. that it consumes more power than an equivalent SFP+ or DAC setup. Which might seem like shrug, except that once you get to the point of burning several extra watts per port on a 48-port switch, it becomes a meaningful ongoing operational expense. Newer estimates are two to five watts per port, whereas SFP+ is about 0.5-0.7. It is worth noting that in a data center environment, if you burn five extra watts in equipment, there is usually about a five to ten watt cost to provide cooling as well. The electrical costs for 10GBase-T add up.

  2. that it experiences higher latency than an SFP+ or DAC setup. SFP+ is typically about 300 nanoseconds. 10GBase-T, on the other hand, uses PHY block encoding, so there is a 3 microsecond step (perhaps 2.5 us more than the SFP+). This shows up as additional latency in 10GBase-T based networks, which is undesirable, especially in the context of the topic of this thread, which is performance maximization. I’m sure someone will point out that it isn’t a major hit. True, but there regardless.

  3. that people argue for 10GBase-T because they’ve already got copper physical plant. The problem is that this is generally a stupid argument. Unless you installed Cat7 years ago, your copper plant is unlikely to be suitable for carrying Cat7 at distance, and that janky old 5e or 6 needs to be replaced. Today’s kids did not live through the trauma of the 90’s, where we went from Cat3 to Cat5 to Cat5e as ethernet evolved from 10 to 100 to 1000Mbps. Replacing physical plant is not trivial, and making 10GBase-T run at 100 meters from the switch is very rough; Cat6 won’t cut it (only 55m), you need Cat6A or Cat7 and an installer with testing/certification gear, because all four pairs have to be virtually perfect, and any problems with any pair can render the connection dead.

By way of comparison, fiber is very friendly. OM4 can take 10G hundreds of meters very efficiently. It’s easy to work with, inexpensive to stock various lengths of patch, and you can get it in milspec variants that are resistant to damage. You can run it well past the standards-specced maximum length in many cases.

On the flip side, 10GBase-T has the advantage of being a familiar sort of plug and play that generally doesn’t require extra bits like SFP+ modules and may be easier to work with inside a rack.

Elliot Dierksen said:

I am starting to see more of my customers wanting to use 10GBase-T

I think the big driver for many people is the familiarity thing I just mentioned; they can wrap their heads around 10GBase-T because at the superficial level it feels very much like 1GbE. There’s a lot of FUD that has slowly percolated into the industry over the last few decades about fiber and fiber installers, because terminating fiber in the field is specialist work that requires expensive gear and supplies. However, these days you can often cheat and get factory-terminated prebuilt assemblies that can avoid the field termination work. Very easy to work with.

On the flip side, Category cable, while familiar on the face of it, is more risky as speeds increase. Category cable is all about twisted pair characteristics, and if you’ll allow me a little liberty for inaccuracy to do a better layman explanation, there are RF components to the issue as well as physical factors:

Category 3 cable, which any monkey should be able to terminate, operates at 16 MHz, handling 10Mbps, and due to the long twist length, it was very common to find people untwisting excessive amounts of cable and just punching it. This continued at least into the Cat5 100Mbps era, and among other things, both 10/100Mbps only used two out of the four pair, which made sloppiness somewhat more forgiving since screwing up a pair still left you operable in many cases.

badtermination.jpg

However, with 1GbE, better signal processing led to the use of 4D-PAM5 modulation encoding, AND all four pairs being used simultaneously in both directions:
View attachment 63328
This is most of how we got to 1GbE without a significant increase in cable bandwidth; Cat5e was only 100MHz-350MHz depending on the era. Crosstalk (RF interference between pairs) and delay skew (difference in transmission times due to differing lengths of the pairs) become significant issues though, and therefore it became necessary for installers to up their games on the quality of field terminations. You had to bring the twist almost all the way up to the terminals, and also make sure that you weren’t causing pair lengths to differ, or shortening one conductor of a pair more than another. Messing with this would cause weird problems and failures.

With 10GbE, we have once again boosted MHz to 500 MHz, and moved to a much more complicated encoding strategy that includes 16 discrete signal levels. This means that it is even more sensitive to field termination errors, and you really need a perfectionist grade punch technique followed by a thorough cable test/certification to get this working reliably.

If you want to know more, I found a very nice summary at https://www.curtisswrightds.com/sit…rnet-Physical-Layer-Standards-white-paper.pdf

Finally, the cost on the used market for 10GBase-T gear is very costly, compared to SFP+. SFP+ has been with us for about two decades, and lots of older gear is being upgraded to 25Gbps or 100Gbps, which is making the used markets a fantastic place to shop for deals on 10Gbps gear. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to spend good money on new 10GBase-T gear that isn’t even a good technology.

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Hi,

Just wanted to say to you, thank you so much for taking the time to make this post. It especially helps me to confirm my own bias! :slight_smile:

I, too, grew up in the 90s and can vividly remember those days! Only in being able to look back at my childhood VS present day can I truly appreciate all that we have accomplished here in the industry. Kids growing up now will never understand what it was like to constantly lose your Internet connection every 15…30min and have those dial up sounds imprinted onto your mind! :smiley: Ah, I almost miss those days now. Almost. It was so cool to witness the revolution!

I wish that I had come to the same conclusions earlier in my life. For anybody reading this, please consider taking the advice; it may well save you headaches and troubles in the long run!

Given a choice, I’d always go fiber for high speed, especially at long distances. The lower power / heat is another very welcome feature. If possible, buy pre-confectioned, however.

Confectioning raw fiber is detail-oriented work that requires expensive tools. After the electrician broke every single fiber drop in my home I bought the requisite tools on eBay and spent a few days and a lot of money on connectors redoing them all.

Raw fiber is expensive, field connections are even more expensive, and the only reason to confection yourself is when you have no other choice. For example, each LC connector cost me about $10, and one needs four per drop.

Plus, pre-confectioned fiber is usually more durable, with boots, strain reliefs and other features not commonly found on field terminations. Not saying it cannot be done but it’s a major undertaking and $$$, even if you resell the tools afterwards like I did.

That said, I recently finished a network upgrade at my in-laws which included running a new CAT6 drop (messy) and putting in new WiFi access points. The house was built in the 1980s and included a few CAT3 drops that I had no expectation of running faster than 1GbE.

But here we are, with 2 out of 2 CAT3 cables @ 200’+ running 2.5GbE while providing 10W to the access points. No doubt, the remote location of the home and lack of interference by adjacent wiring (other than 120VAC) likely helps a bit.

@jgreco is absolutely right though pointing at the issues associated with 10G copper. Copper 10GbE transceivers are more expensive, consume more power, and the performance isn’t on par with fiber.

Plus, I love that fiber is a natural electrical break. The biggest plus for copper is the relatively low cost of the tools needed to make connections. But 10W per connection when power costs me $0.35/kWh is something I avoid if at all possible.

In my virtualized SCALE server and my [Windows] desktop I’ve just replaced 2x 10Gb copper links with 2x 25Gb fiber, switching from QLogic/Marvell Fastlinq to Mellanox ConnectX-4 Lx.

I reckon it’s saving about 5 watts on each box. Thus far my fastest 4k Q1T1 (iSCSI) run is 22k IOPs and it took a fair bit of screwing around and knob-twisting to achieve this and it compromised throughput. My “everyday” settings for both good throughput and IOPs (i.e. minimal latency) yield 18-19k IOPs.

The best I’d witnessed on 2x 10Gb copper was 19-20k and my everyday settings would show ~17k IOPs.

On the throughput side: 2x 10Gb copper gave me full “line rate” almost straight out of the box and I’d have to screw up the settings/tunables pretty badly for this to take a hit.

The 25Gb fiber is a PCIe 3.0 card in my desktop’s 4x slot. So multipathing the two links puts a bottleneck squarely at the PCIe slot. 3200MB/s is all I can wring from it no matter what. From what I can gather nobody else has shoved more than 3200MB/s through a v3.0 4x slot so I’ll call it a win.

I mostly agree with “avoid 10GBASE-T if you can” sentiment. It has no practical upgrade path, switches w/ RJ45 are more expensive vs SFP+ ports, and it does consume more power.

BUT, if fibre isn’t feasible for some reason, you have an existing Cat 6(a) cable plant, and you need to upgrade from 1Gb then I wouldn’t necessarily avoid 10GBASE-T. I ran it for six months and was perfectly happy. The only reason I’ve bailed on it was driver issues (issues that an Intel NIC would be unlikely to have).

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And in reality 10gbaseT can work fine on short 5e runs too. (33-55m, depending on cable and conditions etc)

A 10x upgrade on old 5e plant is not something to be sneezed at.

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I used 6a the whole time because what I had on-hand was exactly the right length (about 15ft). Lacking those two cables I’d have tried some 5e from the junk drawer before spending money.

I’ve witnessed 1Gb working error-free across cat 3 and 10Mb working on everything from cat 2 down to non-twisted RYGB “station cable” and even a short piece of flat “silver satin.” There’s usually quite a bit of wiggle room between what works (but shouldn’t) and what’s actually called for.

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Reminds me of AMD re ECC - what is guaranteed vs. what is delivered.

In a “quiet” environment with relatively little traffic, twisted wires at the right twists/cm + wire gage, CAT6 plastic spacers inside the cable, etc. are likely not nearly as important as they are in a noisy one.

Thus, I got away with running 2.5Gbps + POE on CAT3 even while Wikipedia suggests that Cat5e or better is required. In a data center, I’d be replacing that CAT3 stuff, Stat!

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In the middle of doing an upgrade myself to swap the SAN over from a crappy 2.5gb to 1gb switch to 2.5gb (i know…) direct connection through from the PC to the server and replacing all that to be Gigabit for the LAN and 10gb SFP+ direct fibre link between the server and the desktop.

I’ll then repurpose the 2.5gb cards at either end to be the primary lan links (currently 1gb LAN) when I get a pair of SFP+ and 2.5gb switches for either end.

All gearing up for when gigabit fibre is wired to the house (finally…don’t ask… :slight_smile: )

Mind you, the most the server will be shunting out I guess is 6Gbps from the jbod tray so I guess I could just have all the traffic for LAN and SAN run over the optical as it should have the headroom, but my preference would be to keep things seperated.

I’ve only got short 10m or so cabling runs for the main traffic etc so the cat5e and 6 mix I have in the walls could probably cover 2.5gb ok, but no chance for 10gb (hence the fibre).

the goal is to offload my drive storage from the PC so that the nvme drives and sata SSD’s remain in the case but the big lumps of spinning rust are cleared out and put in the server room. I’ve a heath robinson sata JBOD array as well as the 24 disk SAS tray where the 8TB drives can go.

the NICs I have ordered are twin ports so I could just plug in an RJ45 module in along with the optical but I’m concerned over heat etc. plus, doesnt SFP+ go 1, 5,10gb etc? I haven’t seen any 2.5gb rj45 modules, though I might be looking in the wrong places…

I’m using one of these for 2.5gb:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XQBFHNL?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

There are multi-rate transceivers listed but I don’t know if they work with all cards or not. If using RJ45 SFP+ transceivers, some switches have limits, due to power, on how many can be used at once.

An example from 10GTek

I will say, 90% of the problems I’ve seen with 10GBaseT are caused by SFP+ transceivers which simply put, don’t work well and depending on the device may have compatibility issues. (overheating, delay between link and data actually flowing, pause frames not working leading to unusable speeds, there so so many horrible things these devices cause.)

switches with real 10GBaseT ports are unfortunately priced out of reality. so often what I rather stupidly end up doing at a site is using a server, adding an X540 as a bridge/switch as an easy hacky fix. (like it or not, ACQ107/ACQ113 NICs are common and built in to modern “high end” devices, SFP+ NICs are not, things like macs, high end gamer and “workstation” boards, etc)

regarding heat and SFP, the SFP standard is simply not capable of moderate heat. most people forget that SFP+ was a convenience that came much later, the 10G future of the 2000s was supposed to use XFP. A larger now forgotten form factor that in any device I’ve seen it has heatsinks on the shield. but since most optics don’t actually need a ton of power and backwards/forwards compatibility was valued, the SFP form factor was deemed good enough to push to 10G and XFP never went far. Twisted Pair transceivers came even later yet (since in function they are closer to a 2 port switch). and now we are in the bizarre reality where we have two very different ways of doing 10G networking, with mixed results at best if you marry them together.

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