Ecoflow LiFePo UPS support : update of networkupstools (NUT)

TrueNAS General
1

Hello guys,

networkupstools.org recently integrated support for 2x Ecoflow UPS:

 Added basic support for EcoFlow River 3 Plus and Delta 3 Plus models. [issue #2735, PRs #2740, #2837]

Both are excellent UPS for TrueNAS SOHO use.
Since these have LiFePo (lithium) batteries they are superior to “normal” UPS with lead-acid batteries. They offer longer-lasting performance and reliability, while having an equal transfer time. (<10ms)

Want to know more about EcoFlow RIVER 3 Plus? Here is a great review.

As of SCALE 25.04.1 it is:

nut-scanner -V
Network UPS Tools - 2.8.0

Would it be possible to get an update to 2.8.4+ soonish ?

1 Like
2

Truenas uses a 6 month update cycle for major updates (including major package updates) with smaller updates for bug fixes inbetween . The next major update is due in october. So “soonish” is propably ocotober…

3

That would be great. Soonish enough for me to not start tinkering this version into TrueNAS myself. :smiley:

4

I continue to be amazed how difficult it is for my TrueNAS NUT master server to work reliably with my raspberry pi’s. They’re all using Linux, etc and yet connections keep getting lost even as I copy and paste passwords / logins / etc between them.

I fully agree that LiFePO4 is the way of the future. I use one such battery so far for critical network infrastructure while the TrueNAS still uses a APC since I’m ok with it shutting down sooner than later.

My next project is likely something for the home heating system. I know how much power it consumes and I’d want two days of power in that bank. I’ll likely want to update the boiler as well since the current design is 15 years old and was cost optimized. As a result, it has 20 watts standby and there is no point heating the home with a battery.

1 Like
5

It’s amazing to me how a nice, modern system like this had to come from a company that wasn’t even making a UPS, but instead a portable power bank for camping trips, and that the big players in UPS systems are stuck on 1980s-90s technology with lead-acid batteries that die after a couple of years.

6

Almost makes you think it’s deliberate, doesn’t it?

2 Likes
7

Hmmm… I reckon a more likely explanation is the oligopoly of commercial UPS suppliers not being forced into being innovative. As best as I can tell, the LiFePO4 UPS push is coming from lower capacity suppliers in China gradually delivering ever more powerful units.

None of them are into serious commercial spaces yet as best as I can tell. No SNMP, RS485, Ethernet, even USB. Granted, there are whole house systems that can communicate this way, but usually at a much higher price point. As in you need HAOS to talk to the inverter / battery and in turn that talks to the NUT Server.

In fairness, some of that may be that so much of the data centers in the US are not allowed due to UL or Milspec requirements? That’s pure speculation and a pretty weak argument given how pervasive Chinese made / assembled PCBs are in the UPS industry.

8

The EcoFlow River 3 Plus unit discussed in the first message in this thread has USB communication. Granted, it looks like the first model of theirs to add this feature, but it definitely looks like they’re pushing into the SOHO UPS space with their equipment.

2 Likes
9

Ecoflows prior non-plus versions have UPS support too but transfer times were higher, which wasn’t sufficient for computer / server / some other stuff. Good thing they listened to their customers to improve this.

10

FWIW, when I’ve looked into UPS solutions for specific applications - ie the DCDC rig I built for my critical infrastructure and Ecoflow prices did not compare favorably. Ecoflow is a solution that delivers a bundled set of very powerful features, but many of which I have no use for.

Like my critical network infrastructure, the home heating system consumes less than 200W, doesn’t need a solar hookup, no need for multiple 115V outlets, and so on. The ecoflow is targeted at folk who have a wide range of needs, some portability requirements and so on.

My heating system backup will likely consist of a similar battery to the one I bought for the DCDC UPS, only this time it will need an DC-AC inverter. No word yet on desired battery voltage, etc. It will depend on finding the right inverter and working my way backwards.

11

So, I had a look… and it took a while. There are tons of inverter / chargers out there, along with bazillions of battery options. But here is where I landed if I needed to build a low-wattage but very decent UPS for long runtimes at low power, such as my home heating system (total load < 200W).

Total cost is about $1200 once you account for the various BOP parts - proper fuses, NEMA 15-P Cables, and so on - as well as taxes. But, you get about 3,600Wh of battery capacity and a standby load of 6W. That makes it about perfect for low-load applications with minimal standby.

A comparable-Wh-capacity Ecoflow clocks in at $1,700, with the prime sale going on right now. Unlike the Victron rig, the Ecoflow is a portable product capable of powering far greater loads than the Victron Rig I describe above.

But as we all know, running high-output inverters at low outputs usually really hurts conversion efficiency. Hence the Victron aimpoint of using about 1/3-1/2 of the inverter rated output to power the heating system or refrigerator. That’s what would get me to the rated 91% conversion efficiency.

Notably, some Ecoflow models also work with NUT out of the box, which is a great plus. The Victron approach would only buy you a long runtime and then it’s lights out. Perhaps someone has come up with a way to talk to the Victron (it supports RS485, so it seems plausible) but as solutions go, the Victron approach will take more time and patience to set up than the Ecoflow.

There is a lot to say for going with Ecoflow, such as its portability. i.e. take it somewhere, charge it, bring it back, etc. and that reason alone might make it a better product for emergency situations. A 300Ah battery is no joke to carry around.

Either way, some careful planning should guide your approach to ensure the system is as performant as you want it to be.

12

Victron kit can be linked to a Cerbo GX (and a Cerbo GX touch IIUC) which gives a link to controlling apps, or to a self built control system.

I know some people from a UK renewables forum who use node red in home assistant to control the victron system.

Essentially use the home server to run the UPS, so make sure the UPS is capable of managing the home server.

Also, yes, lugging about a 300Ah 48V battery is a joke. That’s somewhere between 40kg to 50kg.

1 Like
13

Weight is one reality. Another is the expected runtime.

For example, the OEM that manufactured my boiler decided to cheap out re: a US version and hence took a EU-spec boiler and put a 220VA transformer on the front end.

That money savings for them comes at a cost of $90 per annum to me as that transformer consumes 30watts whether it’s doing something or not. Moreover, that heat may be marginally beneficial in the wintertime but in summer, my AC system also has to remove it.

On average, once the system and pumps are running 24/7 (as they do much of winter) the total system power draw is about 120W. Even a 3.6kWh battery will last less than a day on that.

So this is pushing me in the direction of building something more central for the home, ie automatic transfer panel, a larger battery bank, inverter / charger.

2 Likes
14

I wonder how long it would take a new boiler without the transformer “cost” to break even? These are the sort of costs I hate paying: vampiric.

As an aside, I have three Pylontech US50000 for a combined battery size of ~13kWh usable, and that is just enough to get me from cheap rate power to cheap rate power (in winter), when combined with the output from a 6.4kWp solar array (which amounts to another 1-4kWh in winter). I could do with another two or three if I wanted to be really secure over winter. I know some people in Scotland who have 80kWh battery banks.

That said, I have an EV with over 64kWh battery which I could de facto power everything in the house minus the kitchen appliances if I need to. The batteries are designed to work in groups, not by themselves when used to power a house.

The point I’m making is that, building a central system for the house is good, but it can be so much more robust are working together in synergy. But it needs to be reliant on the tech held entirely within the household and not rely on anything in the cloud. Victron seems to be the gold standard for this (I don’t have Victron kit, but if I move house it’s what I’ll be investing in).

Back on topic: A portable system (so could be taken camping etc) could be really useful for the right person. Conversely, if most of the use of the system is going to be found in one geographical place, I think it makes more sense to invest in that standalone system. And most of those systems seem better managed via HA as it goes beyond a standalone UPS as Truenas understands it.

tl;dr: Go Big and Stay Home :slight_smile:

1 Like
15

Bumping this thread. Anyone know what version of NUT is included in 25.10 Goldeye?

16

I’m curious, what happened here? I thought EU household equipment all worked at 240V, same as high-power home appliances in the US (HVAC, stove, dryer typically). Why would you need a transformer? Is your boiler running on 120V? If so, it should be possible to run it directly on 240V, though you’d have to run a cable and install some kind of outlet and probably put a new breaker in your breaker box for it.

17

They cheaped out, boiler standby power (30W!) was not measured per the AFUE test procedure, and traditionally boilers run on 120VAC in the USA. Since 80% of the boiler market in the USA is replacement, 120VAC is a desirable input voltage.

This has little to do with the internal voltages used inside the boiler and everything to do with the pumps being used to circulate. Pump control is usually limited to turning pumps on and off via a bunch of relays. Pumps are available at 230VAC but are usually rarer and more expensive. Boilers frequently control burner, recirculating, and some zone pumps.

My hunch is that the OEM wanted to save on the cost of EBM Pabst combustion air blowers and like EU spec stuff inside, even if the main PCB features a switch mode PSU, IIRC (it’s been a while since I last looked at it). That edition of boilers had also been gelded to not include a variable-speed boiler pump.

So they avoided the need for a 4-wire 230V power supply to be able to run both 120VAC pumps as well as internal 230V systems. But they saddled the customer with a lot of additional standby power in the process. Standardization may have also been a factor - most parts of the world they ship to use 230V, the USA is a tiny hydronic market compared to Europe.

So you add an intermediary external pump controller box that also ups the voltage to 230V for the markets that need it and only build one boiler.

These days, their boiler is much improved and I may upgrade simply because mine is almost 15 years old and it may be approaching the limits of its design life. I take pretty good care of it but condensing boilers in urban areas with lots of dirt in the air make for easily clogged HX (aka “coffee grinds”, “mouse turds”, etc)

18

Replying to my own question, looks like 25.10.0.1 is still 2.8.0

nut-scanner -V
Network UPS Tools - 2.8.0

So back to the original question for this thread, when can we expect NUT to be updated in TrueNAS?

19

It’ll be a while. IIRC, trixie will ship with 26.04 but is only up to nut 2.8.1.

The later editions of NUT (2.8.3 onwards) allegedly have support for EcoFlow UPS’ like the delta 3 plus I have.

Since building nut 2.8.4 in a container basically will make your screen go red with rage-quit (permissions denied), I am now trying to build nut 2.8.4 In a VM, with the EcoFlow being passed through to the VM via USB.

Then the VM can act as a master while the NUT in the GUI can act as a remote. Wish me luck!

2 Likes
20

Would love to hear how this works out for you. Sounds like definitely a good workaround instead of waiting.