Mooglestiltzkin's Build Log: Truenas build recommendation am5 2024?

TrueNAS General
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this is the case i had in mind (sata backplane with rails. Is the rails a must?)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005962751109.html

need advise for what specific parts i should get for my build e.g.

motherboard (asrock?), cpu (ryzen igpu preferably), ram (preferably ddr5 ecc. 2 x 16gb = 32gb total), PSU (seasonic ?), cpu heatink?

1x crucial nvme m2 p5 gen4 ssd for truenas. 2 tb. is a single ssd fine for boot drive?

2x nvme ssd gen4 not sure which yet. crucial? (for vms). 2tb each

4x 12tb seagate exos X12 - 12tb 256mb cache (5 year warranty international). $175 USD each

want to use as my main 24/7 truenas nas for dockers and storage.

Another requirement is that it can work with a 10gtek sfp+ pcie addon card which i need for 10g

i run roughly 20-30 docker containers. usually light loads, nothing too crazy. jellyfin, immich, nginx proxy manager

preferably budget build. willing to increases if necessary only.

this is the server rack i am using to install this 2u case rack in. mines the 15U
https://shopee.com.my/12U-15U-Open-Server-Rack-(-4-post-open-rack)-i.94507737.13119041024

this is my current nas but i feel it’s time to move on

planning to relegate the qnap as a backup to the new nas build. my main gripe with the qnap, it doesn’t support ecc ram. and it has a lcd i no longer use but cant turn off x-x;

Anyway i am assuming this setup would be sufficient for 10g networking? thats the goal

was watching videos similar to this for ideas

but he is on the am4 platform also is 2 years old video. but i need help similar to this so i know what parts to get for the case i’m looking at.

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First, the guy in the videos first comment is not favorable towards AliExpress. I too have not had a great time either. But some people can do good.

You get what you pay for. Keep that in mind. Hard Drives and Fans are the disposable items, you want everything else to last the lifetime of your NAS.

Take a look at my NVMe system, it is very similar to what you are requesting.

Also, do you absolutely need Gen 5 M.2 NVMe drives? Gen 3 is fine for practically everything. Gen 4 if you must, however anything above Gen 3 will definitely require some active cooling as they run hot.

32GB RAM sounds possibly a bit short for 30 docker containers, but it may be fine.

Do you need drives on removable trays? You can purchase a case that holds 6 or 8 drives but they must be manually installed/removed. It is not a cool looking as removable trays however those cost money.

AM5 is fine with the correct motherboard. Again, look at my build, it can save you a lot of time. But my build was a 100% NVMe system. My motherboard only handles 4 SATA drives so you would want to locate something similar that has at least 8 SATA ports (4 for the four HDDs, 1 for the boot SSD, 3 left over). When thinking of a motherboard, think about PCIe slots and what they can do, or can’t do.

The “shopee.com” link requires me to log in to view the item. Of course I’m not doing that.

Be careful when watching videos on the internet on how to build a system, often they are wrong or just plain not current.

Write down everything you NEED the system to do and everything you WANT the system to do. The basic requirements for a TrueNAS system is 8GB RAM (32GB or more is what I’d recommend depending on what you are doing), and the RAM should be ECC.

Well that is really it. However the other requirements will be based upon what you want to use the NAS for. Do you need high speed processing? Do you need a lot of PCIe lanes? Does it need to be fanless? You get my point. And the same can be said about the motherboard.

A server motherboard is the best way forward. IPMI is more of a help than most people realize, until they experience it.

If sound/noise is a factor, I would not recommend a Rack mounted system, they tend to use high speed tiny fans which are loud. And no, you do not need to use the mounting rails, they should screw on.

I would recommend that you look at some of the systems other are running. they generally list the components they used. If you find something you like, toss them a message and ask them about it. What would they do differently.

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i would avoid if i could. i did see the rack available where i normally order, but they dont have the model i wanted sadly. will require further follow up.

based on what every1 says, gen3/gen4 is fine. so yeah i’m definitely not spending on gen5 ssd unless the price is right (which it probably aint).

yeah might not be much by server standards, but tbh my load is pretty light. i also set ram limits in docker compose to keep that in check. if i didn’t i’d definitely worry. but based on my current setup i’m still within the limit so thats why i thought it would be fine.

In the youtube, that 2u rack does not have removable. actually that might be fine (and cheaper too). but i’m very used to hot swap hard drives. But when i think about replacing drives in future, i’d have to remove the whole case from the rack, open it up. i just dont like that compared to just swapping out the drive from the removable tray. thats my main gripe. might not be doing it often, but drives do fail and i dont want to be reckoning with that. i just want to set it up that one time, then enjoy >_<: xd

im fine sticking to hdd (for storing stuff cheaply for big data), and vms on ssd (i dont use much space, so 2tb should be enuff for my dockers)

I also watched raidowls build. but he went with 1u which is a bit too tight. He even had to go as far as pulling a mcgyver to get the cpu cooler to fit (which i aint doing :rofl: ). And after all that, the temps hit 80c+ yikes… i dont like that.

the part about his video though that caught my interest, was his choice/reason for amd motherboard was becauz it supported installing 2x nvme m.2 ssds using a PCIE addon card.

he opted for an Asrock b650m pg lightning which supports that sort of thing. Do you guys recommend this board?

I would hop on it, but there were things in this build that didn’t sit right with me, so i’m not sure if he messed up with the board and cpu selection or not. that’s why i felt a second opinion is required :sweat_smile: (sorry owl)

our trusty hardware unboxed talks about this specific motherboard :thinking:

https://pg.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B650M%20PG%20Lightning/index.asp#Specification

Well that is really it. However the other requirements will be based upon what you want to use the NAS for. Do you need high speed processing? Do you need a lot of PCIe lanes? Does it need to be fanless? You get my point. And the same can be said about the motherboard.

well for pcie lanes, my requirements are

  • sfp+ 10g pcie card
  • graphics card (probly wont use it, though i might)
  • nvme m.2 ssd pcie addon card (to be able to install at least 2 of these ssds. cauz for the u2 case im looking at, i dont see how else i would be able to install other than this method.)

for cpu requirement. Igpu is a must, then i dont have to deal with whether i have a graphics card or not, since the igpu will be able to do hdmi for the monitor. saves a lot of hassle. For performance, i am using it for 24/6, so i rather it be power efficient. But still be able to handle 20-30 docker containers (that barely use cpu cept when it does something e.g. jellyfin scans shares for media). But nas is mostly under 5-20% usage most of the time.

Want to be able to do 10g networking speeds.

i tried lookin at other builds here

but nothing really caught my eye :cry:

Zach’s youtube video is closest to what i want to do (+ the nvme ssd pcie addon that raidowl mentioned).

Right now i’m checking on this case if it would be suitable or not. This is currently the case i’m most interested in. My 2nd choice is what Zach used.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005962751109.html

as for noise i got a 24+ port switch with those small fans you speak of. I’m use to it :cry: I even got some noise cancelling headphones and that really solve the noise issue :joy:

but in zachs video he uses some noctua fans. i’m willing to try stock first see how that goes, if it’s awful i would then try replacing with noctuas (an easy mod)

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*update

Your cabinet is too small.

The rack rail min length is 593mm

Can’t use it.

So much for that :cry: but i guess is fine without rails i hope.

this other guy used this trick for when the rails was too long for his rack

2448Ă—3264 1.49 MB

https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/28ukk4/rails_are_too_long_for_my_rack_any_ideas/

This is the open server rack i am using currently fyi

684Ă—793 182 KB

  • Dimension: 500x550mm (width x dept)

  • Support total load weight up to max 200kg

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actually now the seller says the rail they provide will support my case.

also what the description meant, if i use a atx psu, it can then only fit a micro atx motherboard.

But, if you go with a 2u singles psu, you can then use a atx motherboard.

so between those 2, should i go with the atx or micro atx?

For the 2u singles psu what should i get? the optionally offered psu they suggest is either a 600w or 800w GW brand psu.

I looked it up and people say this gw is great wall brand psu and it’s rubbish.
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/xm0zus/has_anyone_ever_heard_of_a_great_wall_gw600wl/

going through this article, good psu guide

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1fbmlcl/get_an_atx_30_or_31_psu_or_will_adapters_work/

i’m leaning toward the micro atx, because then i know what psu to get. no clue about the singles.

600watt 80certified seasonic

FOCUS GX ATX 3

Following the well-established legacy of the Seasonic FOCUS Series, the FOCUS GX Series has been upgraded to comply with the ATX 3.1 and PCIe 5.1 standards. It offers a complete range of power supplies from 750W to 1000W, all within a compact 140mm depth. Each unit features a 135mm fan, a 12V-2Ă—6 cable, and our new OptiSink technology. These units are designed to be perfect allies in powering the latest high-power graphics cards and processors available on the market.

Availability varies by region:

  • Asia: Already available.
  • Europe: October 2024.
  • USA: Mid-November 2024.

https://seasonic.com/focus-gx-atx-3/

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Rather than answers, you’ll get a deluge of “why”.
Why specifically AM5?
Why an iGPU?
Why go DDR5? DDR4 is cheaper; getting more DDR4 (R)DIMM for the same price should be a no-brainer.

Yes, but remember it’s only for boot and there’s hardly any performance requirements here, so a 120 GB Gen3 drive on a x1 slot is more than adequate. IMHO, if you’re spending more than $10 here you’re overspending.

Obviously NOT, because it is gamer stuff, not a server board.

Skip AliExpress and look for refurbished servers in your area. I’m sure you can get a complete server, with chassis, PSU, rails, disk trays, motherboard, CPU, and possibly even its RAM for less than this chassis alone. Just admit it will be DDR4 RDIMM.

Hey, I got this in my email this moring from serverzaak.nl (automated translation services are your friend if needed…):

Bekijk de SuperMicro SuperServer 1028R-TDW in onze Outlet:

  • Processors: 2x Intel Xeon E5-2630v3
  • Geheugen: 64GB DDR4 RAM
  • Voeding: 600W Power Supply

Normale prijs: €279
Outlet prijs: Slechts €199 (Bijna 30%! korting)

Deze server biedt betrouwbare prestaties voor veeleisende toepassingen. Profiteer van deze uitstekende prijs-kwaliteitverhouding en upgrade jouw infrastructuur vandaag nog.

Wees er snel bij, want op=op!

Beware of replacing screaming server fans with quiet consumer fans: The quiet ones cannot push air strongly enough in a tight server chassis.
Rackmount stuff is typically noisy. If you can’t put it away where it won’t bother you don’t go for it.

Rackmount cases take dedicated PSUs. These are not standardised, so go for what your chassis (and possibly also motherboard) require.
A rackmount chassis which pretends to take standard ATX PSU is almost certainly consumer-oriented crap with poor cooling and other design flaws.

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almost feels i should just get something prebuilt and install truenas on that

less headache :smiling_face_with_tear:

igpu = cpu with graphics, so i can access bios connect via monitor to install bios. otherwise, i end up having to buy a graphics card just for that. with assumption i’m not gonna to be using graphics card for anything other than that. which is a waste :cry:

i thought the ddr5 prices came down by now. still not yet? :scream: guess ill need to do more research on this.

well people said for roughly same price more or less u can just go am5 instead of am4 so may as well. that was my reasoning, for a new system being built.

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This is what IPMI is for with server motherboards…

It has, but it’s still no match for second-hand DDR4 RDIMM. So getting an older system and stuffing it with 64 or 128 GB “because you can” looks like a better plan than getting 32 GB of DDR5 ECC RAM and carefully paying with limits to make everything fit.

Your requirements seem rather simple: 4 HDDs for storage and a pair of SSDs for your many containers (+boot). This can fit with “consumer-style” platforms, including “consumer-style servers”, Xeon E or server Ryzen boards (so no RDIMM here), and consumer cases designed for quiet cooling.
But I’d suggest to go for a genuine server board with IPMI so you can find out what we’re talking about. (Warning: One you’ve tried, there’s no going back!)

How many cores would you need for these 20-30 containers, and what kind of clock speed?
Any hard power limits?

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unfortunately i don’t have any indepth reviews for the stuff im looking at other than the first youtube where he showed the component to fit his case.

the only one who shared their temps was raidowl. 80c+ yikes :scream:

here some examples

605Ă—777 105 KB

1550Ă—976 211 KB

i was trying to look for one for the case i was looking at but couldnt find any user post their setup :cry:

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not familiar with it. i will have to google :cry: so far i’ve been connecting hdmi from motherboard to monitor to access the bios (i have a 3-5 meter long hdmi cable. and my rack server is a floor rack with wheels so i can get it close enough to connect to monitor though i don’t even have to do that since hdmi cable is long enough) :blush: i only ever have to do that for initial setup only. not planning to do any remote access… often i managed stuff local

not sure about threads and cores i need.

note: not doing much vms but i may in future try run a vm for linux os for light testing purposes, but not a big deal if i cant if not enough resources for it.

but i can tell you what i’m currently using and it seems to just work fine.

AMD Ryzen 5 1400 Quad-Core Processor

Cores: 4 cores Threads: 8 threads

5-20% cpu usage most of the time, that seemed enough for the docker containers i use :sweat_smile:

only when i do stuff like jellyfin to actively scan index or something would cpu then try to reach for 100% this is rarely and even then my nas doesn’t hang. don’t notice anything bad happening, it just works.

16gb ram ddr4

to be precise i’m running 23 docker containers. sometimes up to 30 max.

only just running jailmaker and these docker containers, ontop of the usual NAS storage access stuff. nothing fancy.

2533Ă—741 124 KB

i was also doing some research on builds others were working on

https://www.reddit.com/r/truenas/comments/1961766/truenas_scale_build_2024_questions_and_hardware/

This chap for example was also trying to build around a 2U Rack Case 520mm INNOVISION. Not sure if it’s the same one i’m looking at but it’s the same brand.

sfatula -

Here’s some reasons: [Newbie] Mini-ITX Mobo in 2023 | TrueNAS Community read through it.

I’d add pcie lanes, # cores, ipmi to the list of some reasons. A fast consumer cpu seems great, but a server does many things at once. A fast 4 core cpu vs a slower but 16 core cpu, I’d take the cores on a server. Lanes are often over-shared on consumer mb. Compatibility is a big one, Linux doesn’t support all the new stuff and fancy stuff gaming boards often have. Do you want to build your machine only to find out it won’t work?

Supermicro motherboards are the tried and proven truenas motherboards.

this fella also recommended what you said :thinking:

My biggest dilema right now is which ASRock rRack or Supermicro board I should get… I’ve looked through the forums and a lot of the recurring mini-ITX suggestions are either out of stock or seem to have become infamous due to having problems (like the ASRock c2750d4i).

:grimacing: u see why i am having trouble finding the correct motherboard. the only thing i know was from raidowl who pointed out the ryzen boards can support those nvme m.2 pcie addon cards which i probably will need (3 slots m.2 nvme ssds for what i had in mind. So 1 on motherboard, and an additional 2 from a pcie addoncard)

1468Ă—580 170 KB

Any hard power limits?

not sure what u meant by this. the components id be using

  • 4x 12tb 3.5’’ hdds
  • 3x m.2 nvme ssds (gen3/4)
  • 16x2 ram (32gb). kingston? crucial?
  • 1 pcie addon card
  • 1 sfp+ 10g pcie card
  • the case fans
  • psu atx
  • micro atx motherboard
  • no graphics card
  • cpu heatsink with fan
  • cpu (amd. something low tdp but sufficient cores/threads)

750 watt psu good enuff for this?

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:eyes:

part2

my msi monitor says it has kvm does that help?. i just dont know how to use it… :sweat_smile:

https://www.msi.com/Monitor/MAG-274QRF-QD-E2

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So you mount those to the switch and the room gets quiet, I like it :crazy_face:

Looks like you are getting some good advice. An older system (while many people shun the idea) it possibly a better solution for you. It keeps the cost down quite a bit.

When I sell my current spinning rust server in probably a few months, someone will be very happy with it as the cost will be fairly low. Too bad these things depreciate over time. But that is good for others to get into a server without spending a ton of money.

Whatever you build, just make sure it checks off all the boxes you need. Read the user manuals for the motherboards and all the other stuff you plan to purchase. Knowledge is power they say and in this case, it can protect your wallet.

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raid owl was right. its no wonder products like zimacube exist and dont go out of business. most people dont want to diy themselves even if u can save some $_$: its a headache :sweat_smile:

well, will take my time on this

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Noctua fans in rack case, as pictured under?

OK, so you do not require a lot of computing power. And that potentially brings you in Xeon D-1500 territory… Old but good; 6 SATA and potentially 5 M.2 (4 in x16 riser) if using on-board 10G.
Plenty of potential choice for motherboards anyway.

Let’s try from the other side: The case. I do not have personal experience with a case that is quiet, has good drive cooling AND hot-swap bays.
Anything rackmount is going to be noisy.
Lian-Li PC-Q26 has convenient swap bays (but not hot-swap), and is made of pure Unobtainium. Supermicro SC721 (TrueNAS Mini) has genuine hot-swap bays, but is not THAT good at cooling.
There are, however, plenty of consumer cases which can take 4 spinners and be quiet, but without fast swapping. (I have no personal experience yet with Jonsbo N cases.)
What’s your priority?

And does someone has a suggestion here?

More than enough. I was wondering if you were especially concerned about low idle power. (If so, Xeon D-1500 would be a good way to go. If no, Xeon D-2100 may also come into consideration.)

This should mean it has a function to switch between inputs. Which is fine, but the whole point of IPMI is not plugging a monitor and keyboard at all: You plug in an Ethernet cable to the management port and handle the rest from a remote PC, its regular screen and its regular keyboard. No switching (but the switch in your network, of course).

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i was doing more research. even spotted some of your old posts etorix :wink:

*just adding links in case helps any1 else doing this research

https://www.reddit.com/r/truenas/comments/114z669/what_do_i_lose_going_with_amd/

https://www.reddit.com/r/truenas/comments/1961766/truenas_scale_build_2024_questions_and_hardware/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1fbmlcl/get_an_atx_30_or_31_psu_or_will_adapters_work/

You won’t lose much nowadays, if anything at all.

I happily run a Ryzen Pro 4750G with 64GB of ECC memory and it’s fast and snappy. and it’s been 100% stable for almost 1.5 years now.

The G Ryzen have built in GPUs, my Jellyfin transcodes happily via VA-API and I do not miss Quicksync at all.

If you miss IPMI you can always build a PiKVM and attach it to HDMI and USB and there you go. I have wake on LAN enabled on mine and in case power goes out and the machine shuts down, it’s super easy to power back on from a Pi I use as DNS server for my network.

Edit: only the Pro G CPUs will support ECC memory for Zen3 and below, so a 5600G will not, for example.

So wait, none of the 5000 series Pro cpus support ECC?

Only the X, eg 5600X and the Pros. Regular G Ryzens do not.

i get why ipmi is nice to have for server to access the bios. but i’m not too hung up about that. might be important for someone who positions the nas far away from a monitor or access via remote. but i’m within arms reach of my network rack and i have a hdmi cable within reach that just works. and it’s not like i access it via monitor every day, so it’s not a big deal for me :sweat_smile: and from what i read it’s a constant 10 watt draw? cauz the ipmi is always running. just mention it in passing since it’s what i read.

i get why the xeon or epyc is nice for low power and has many cores/threads for a server. but i’m getting by just fine with a ryzen gen1 1400, so it’s probably overkill for me :sweat_smile:

also i have no plans to ever use more than 2 sticks of ram. even 16gb is working fine for me, though i don’t mind just getting 32gb just in case. i did set ram limit for my docker containers. if i set too low the container crashes. so i just up the limit and based on the container spec requirements until it runs without issue :sweat_smile: and it’s been dandy since.

Noctua fans in rack case, as pictured under?

that was by a different youtuber (yes he had noctua fans, but he didn’t post his temps afaik). raidowls truenas build was the other video, he is using a 1u casing.

spotted your lian li thread :eyes:

6 SATA and potentially 5 M.2 (4 in x16 riser) if using on-board 10G.

m.2 nvme? yeah 6 and 5 sounds about what i’d use at most for sata and m.2 nvme ssds. does this support those m.2 nvme pcie addons? i need at least 3 m.2 nvme slots minimum. gen4? 1 for truenas, and other 2 for my docker containers.

What’s your priority?

well something similar to what i’m currently using ryzen 1400, but better.

i get the xeons are amazing server cpus, not arguing against that. but i wouldn’t mind just getting a ryzen low power cpu with an igpu since that is what i’m use to, even if it costs me extra in power i’m ok with that (doesnt have to be perfect). the quote by other user for his ryzen igpu setup that even supports ecc was interesting to me. and like raidowl said, the ryzen motherboards will support the pcie lane config allowing for those m.2 nvme pcie addon cards which i will need. still doing more research on that but it’s probably what i am leaning toward.

basically i’m just playing out with my server rack. so i rather avoid desktop nas like jonsbo (i looked hard and jonsbo but ended up wanting a U2 rack case for it. i’ve been warned the fans might be loud, but i’m willing to try and learn from my mistake. i already got loud stuff as is :rofl: )

side note: wadahecks going on with super micro right now :eyes:

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Speaking for myself, as soon as you specified AM5 and 2024 components you knocked off all the ability anyone has to comment from actual experience.

Latest and Greatest and “stable and reliable” tend to be mutually exclusive.

You’ve heard of the “bleeding edge” right?

Anyway, if you’re willing to discuss options other than the bleeding edge, then you’ll get more comments :slight_smile:

One of the best recent build advise threads is this one:

TLDR; X10SDV

I’m not 100% comfortable recommending the X10SDV as it is getting long in the tooth.

But the mATX versions are brilliant, and my Node304 system now has 132TB of disk in it :wink: (see sig)

For something bigger it really comes down to how many lanes you want…

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:eyes:

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That video is crap.

What truly sets it apart is that it has 5 Ethernet ports, 2 of which are 10gbe powered by intel x550 class chipset.

I run a virtual pfsense on mine with hardware pass through of the two 1gbe ports for LAN/WAN.

That forms my primary router/firewall/proxy/vpn/dns etc

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sorry ur right. but the only other i spotted was a change heatsink guide :rofl: