Incus, VMs, Containers

TrueNAS General
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OK - am I missing something here we now have:

Containers - This is Incus, both containers and VM’s. (Also wouldn’t this have been better calling it Incus rather than Containers)
VM’s - “Old School” Scale VM’s
Apps - Docker Containers

I don’t use VM’s - but I do use containers, both as IX-Apps and via Jailmaker / Portainer (still just working BTW) depending mostly on how I want to distrubute resources. I like jails, which means that I also conceptually like Incus “Jails” and have a test incus/portainer container - but its not live due to the experimental marker.

So - planning ahead - I am confused as to where IX is going.

  1. Are “Old School” VM’s remaining for the future 26+ - I think Yes - and I don’t care personally
  2. Is docker remaining (IX-Apps) for 26+ - I think Yes
  3. Are Incus VM’s remaining in 26+ - I think these are / have been removed - and I don’t care personally
  4. Are incus Containers (essentially Jails) also being removed in 26+ - I don’t know - but I hope not - as that looks to me like a good solution to the jails requirement (lightweight VM’s).
  5. If Incus Containers (Jails) get removed - what will IX replace them with (Jailmaker???)

Can anyone supply a definitive answer to the above questions please?

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Kris was pretty open in the general chat about it:

kris
2025-07-29 16:59:09 UTC
General |

I'm a bit shocked that wasn't crystal clear. Incus is being removed from the base system. 100% and entirely. Libvirt is the thing that will handle the backend for both VMS and LXC.

But that said, the way that your message across was bewildering, since I don't know how much clearer that could have been. We also won't be talking as much about backend technology in the future, since folks tend to get all wrapped up around the axel anytime we do :wink:

As to when it’ll be removed wasn’t stated yet.

Edit:
in the podcast from last Friday they said that lxc will also be libvirt based.

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There’s a german expression:

“Rin in die Kartoffeln, raus aus die Kartoffeln”

(into the potatoes, out of the potatoes)

Origin allegedly short lived and contradicting military orders to deploy in a potato field, then remove again. Meaning someone who cannot make up their mind.

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PotatoNAS™ German Edition

“Each exciting release comes with a new feature and removes an existing feature! What will it be? It’s a surprise!” :smiley:

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So what happening with “Jails”? Don’t give a damn about VM’s, just Jails

I don’t give a damn what used in the backend - I just want the functionality. And I want to know when I can think about deploying it - so it lasts and I (preferebly) don’t have to do it again

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We don’t know yet. My guess is that incus will be removed in 25.10, but does that mean that we get libvirt-lxc at the same time?
As far as i can remember from the podcast, iX tries to keep as much of the incus gui work they’ve already done. So maybe we’ll see it in 25.10 (potentionally with an experimental tag again)

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I may be confusing “Incus” as the underlying tech vs functionality (Jails, VM’s)

I hope that Jailmaker keeps working until IX settle on something

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incus is a management layer for managing vms or lxcs. I would say it’s similar to what jailmaker does with systemd-nspawn.

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Interesting. Conversely, there are a number of expression in English:

“The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry.”
“Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.”
“We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.”
“Go with the flow.”
“Roll with the punches.”
“Change is the only constant.”
“Expect the unexpected.”
“Think on your feet.”
“Improvise, adapt, overcome.”

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This is my personal favorite :wink:

But to answer the bigger question, LXC (AKA Jails for you BSD folk) is still in the product for 25.10. UI stays the same. We’re just migrating the backend tools away from Incus to libvirt’s native LXC support. But you shouldn’t be using CLI tools anyway right?

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I only use the CLI to compensate for UI inadequacies.

  1. Multi-Report
  2. Graphing disk temperatures in the way I want
  3. Jailmaker
  4. Pruning docker images
  5. A backup routine for instances (incus export docker-inst …)
  6. Now I just need a way of backing up my container (IX-Apps) configurations - not worried about the hostpath data
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OT, but as someone who has served, I can tell you that your list of English quotes do not quite convey the same message. Your English quotes are all oriented to the idea that things change so you should be prepared for it. While true, they are not the equivalent of “Rin in die Kartoffeln, raus aus die Kartoffeln”.

The direct English equivalents that I’ve seen, and which possibly are only used in the military, include:

“Great coats on; great coats off.” (A “great coat” being a heavier version of a gabardine trench coat, for use in winter.)

“On the bus; off the bus.” Get on the bus. What the f*ck are you doing on the bus? Get off the bus.

The key difference lies in pmh’s last sentence. It’s a great cynicism with respect to conflicting orders where there should not have been a conflict to begin with. It has nothing to do with changing circumstances.

A commander must adapt to circumstances. He can be wrong, but never be unsure in his orders; he must be decisive. There’s nothing that scares the shit out of his troops more than a commander who cannot make up his mind.

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